Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Jul | 31 | Down The Transexual Toilet


Dream Word – CONSIDER

Genesis 1:27, 28 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Then God blessed them, --- NKJV

Down The Transexual Toilet

The rising problem of sexual identity issues, especially amongst young boys, is on an ever steepening rising curve. The advance in medical technology and expertise has made physical re-alignement surgery increasingly common. Indeed, sex-change surgery has become such a speciality of the Thai health industry, that it has become a relatively inexpensive procedure; patients are travelling there from all over the world to get the operation. As I write today in 2008, the challenge for the country of Thailand is that up to 20% of boys in their secondary schools, some as young as twelve years of age, are so camping in it up in school and talking about their plans to get transgender surgery as soon as they are legally allowed, that the school authorities have built a third set of toilets; they now have male, female and transsexual toilets.

A Thai campaigner for transgender rights, male to female, commenting on the rising weirdness, remarked that “Maybe the numbers of gays, of people with sexual identity issues, might be the same as in other countries but because Thai society and culture tend to be very sweet, very soft, and the men can be really feminine, if we tend to be gay, many of us tend to be transgender." Interesting.

On the whole, I believe that it is our fallen society, which through its manipulation of mass media, both generates these unnatural tendencies and then continually propagates the growth of these unnatural inclinations by political means, legal means, and further cultural manipulation, which all go to foster an atmosphere of acceptance. Meanwhile, with this literal emasculation of society, diseases such as AIDS and the marketed dis-ease of male pattern stupidity, together with the subsequent destruction of family life, all take us ever closer to the precipice of moral madness, the decimation of society and ultimate population destruction. Yes, it is a serious as that.

The church now has to face the financial cost of political correctness and growing legal challenges, if it does not, then it to shall go the way of Camp old Cain and mince its way into utter feminisation. Make no mistake about it, the coming complete Anglican split, is not so much about the authority of Scripture as we are led to believe by embarrassed conservatives that have not had the bottle to get out of this religious Sodom, but rather, it is about sexual infiltration in the church and cultural manipulation by homosexuals with an agenda.

Even so, grace and truth must sleep together, for they are marriage partners. Therefore, just how does a church graciously minister to those folks from a country where 20% of the population and rising, have had their todgers tacked back, and through hormones and surgery, have grown a couple of breasts? Indeed, how will the church in the U.K. and the U.S.A. minister to “lady boys” and “fem men” in our own countries! It’s an ever-increasing problem that’s for sure, for there is no coming back from the hormone and scalpel train wreck, which is transgender surgery. We need to really think this through as we reach out to our fellow sinners with God’s love.

We now live in an age where women are men and boys are frightened. If you are a Christian tonight, then you have to help shape and formulate in the wisest of ways, legal plans and practical protection for your congregational futures and finances. More than that, somehow we all need to learn how to preach the Gospel to people who have travelled the transexual road and try and imagine the shape and direction of a journey of sanctification and spiritual recovery which they will have to undertake. My goodness, we need the anarchy of God’s grace to come and sort out this most agonizing of messes. I’m sure you agree with that!

Listen: - You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. ( Leviticus 18:22-23 NKJV.)

Pray:- Lord, we need wisdom. Lord, we need grace. Lord, we need protection. Lord, we need men to men and women to be women and strong models for both. Have mercy upon us O God and assist us to walk with great grace and great truth in these most complicated of matters. In Jesus name, we ask it, amen.

                                                                                                           

13 comments:

Zoe Brain said...

Another view - a medical and scientific one - is at TS-101.

Transsexuality For Beginners.

This is a primer for those who don't know too much about the issue. They see weirdos and freaks, obvious nutcases who get their bodies mutilated for some perverse reason, and think they're crazy, dangerously so. They disapprove anyway, and just based on grounds of "common sense", I can't blame them. It seems obvious that it goes against Nature, and for Believers, God.

But here's the medical facts. It explains why these people do what they do.

I have to start with Intersex conditions generally, where people have bodies neither wholly male nor wholly female. It's estimated that 1.7% of the population qualify technically, but essentially only about 1 in 1000 have problems from it. If say 1% of your cells are of the opposite sex to the majority, it probably won't affect you....


There's rather a lot more, but it's designed as a guide for the layperson.

A rather more technical article, that gives rather more proof of some of the incredible statements in TS-101 is BiGender and the Brain.

A typical quote from that:
Gender change in 46,XY persons with 5alpha-reductase-2 deficiency and 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase-3 deficiency. by Cohen-Ketternis:

Individuals with 5alpha-reductase-2 deficiency (5alpha-RD-2) and 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase-3 deficiency (17beta-HSD-3) are often raised as girls. Over the past number of years, this policy has been challenged because many individuals with these conditions develop a male gender identity and make a gender role change after puberty....


They look like girls at birth, but their bodies masculinise at puberty you see. Some can even become fathers.

It's complicated. It's not new though, see Matthew 19:12 about those "born eunuchs from their mothers womb", who we would now call "Intersexed".

The two articles, TS-101 and BiGender and the Brain show that Transsexuality is a form of Intersex. The old claim about "woman trapped in a male body" is actually "female brain in a male body".

As the Full Bench of the Australian Family Court found in 2003:

At paragraph [252]: ‘The traditional analysis that they are "psychologically" transsexual does not explain how this state came about. For example, there seems to be no suggestion in the evidence that their psychological state can be explained by reference to circumstances of their upbringing. In that sense, the brain sex theory does not seem to be competing with other explanations, but rather is providing a possible explanation of what is otherwise inexplicable’.
...
At paragraph [272]: ‘In my view the evidence demonstrates (at least on the balance of probabilities) that the characteristics of transsexuals are as much “biological” as those of people thought of as inter-sex’.


So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

For some of us, it really is AND and not OR. Something of both. And people like me have to follow Isaiah 56:4-5 rather than the normal strictures. We get a promise of special treatment in return.

I have one of the extremely rare conditions. 5ARD (where little girls grow up to be men) is relatively common, 1 in 40,000.

Natural changes in the reverse direction, like mine, are one in several million. I've been blessed with guidance from the Bishop of Durham, a former teacher of mine, on what is the morally correct thing to do under the circumstances.

Tina said...

I am a transgender woman. I was told by a surgeon that he could tell just from my medical history that I gave that I was transgender without ever having met me. There is sufficient evidence that the transgender people have the brains of the gender that they identify with (male & female brains have been proven to be different, in measureable and cellular attributes). A study was also published this week that shows a chromosonal/genetic link in transgender female to male people. This article also does not recognize people that where born with an intersex condition which has been documented through all of recorded history. This is not a case of being confused about one's gender, this is a case of ones brain being of a different gender thanones "birth" body. There is no known way of changing the brain, and if the body remains different than that of the brain, serious emotional and psychological symptoms will become prevelant which many times becomes completely debilitating, many times to the point of lifelong depression and possibly suicide.
I am a christian woman, and this is a condition I was born with. I wish it wasn't that way but I need to make do with the cards I was dealt. This is not a moral issue. If you want to quote scripture, how about Mathew 19:12

"For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."
I love my church, I love my God, and I work to educate people about this condition. What I ask for from my church is to leave the judging to God. I am comfortable that I am doing the right thing. I don't need prayers to change me, but prayers to make sure that fellow Christians become more understanding would be greatly appreciated.

terry said...

Once again, an apocryphal passage from the old Jewish Testament is being given the authority to tell us what do. The "Laws" in Deut. and Levit. are an embarrassment to modern Jews. They allow stoning your neighbors for blaspheming or planting two crops in a field. One passage allows selling your daughter into slavery. They are a joke! Buried deeply in this morass of "Law", we find the "laws" against homosexuality and crossdressing. But consider the laws against people with crooked backs and other deformities. Why aren't prohibitions enforced with the law against sodomy? I know the reason, do you? Have you ever wondered why they're not included in the ten commandments if it's that important? Religious"Leaders" get by with this stuff only because people never read their bibles. BTW Jesus never said a word against homosexuality. I'm not homosexual, I'm Transgender so it doesn't mean anything to me.
Contrast the "laws" of Deut. and Levit. with what Jesus said in Matt. 19:12. I'll trust you to know it. Wouldn't you agree that the third type of eunuch was the Transgendered? The sane, rational man can see no other application
for this. Especially when self made eunuchs were probably common then. They existed in India for 4000 years. India provides us with a historical snapshot of the "Third sex" (Google Hijra) till the present. I can't believe things were radically different in the Holy Land. Other suggested reading, Mark 9:47 and Isaiah 56.
I am a 60+ y.o. Transexual whose battled these feelings all my life. I was told to get married and raise a family to cope with them. I did that and it didn't work! So now I'm transitioning which is what I should have done forty years ago.
Regards, Terry

Hazumu Osaragi said...

Hi;

May I interject a real life situation. I’d like to hear your guidance on this.

My mother was given a drug to take to lessen the chance of miscarriage and promote healthy babies — that’s what the doctor told her. The drug is Diethylstilbestrol, or DES. In male fetuses, it feminizes the brains of one in five of us ‘DES sons’.

I finally came to terms with this, and realized my choice was transition or die. So, I’m now a male-to-female transsexual who’s had ‘the operation.’ I’ve changed all my legal paperwork and although I still have a male body with XY chromosomes, it has been retrofitted to approximate female anatomy, which is good because if I ever end up in an accident, there will be no ’surprise’ for the first responders.

I ‘pass’ very well, thank you. Only rarely do strangers figure out I was not born this way. Most people have to be told, by me, or, more often, by someone else who just has to ‘drop the bomb.’

So my question to you is — knowing what you know now about me, and assuming for the moment you get absolute power to label me and make determinations on where I can and can't go —

-Which restroom and changing facility do you feel I, a male-to-female transsexual, should use when in public spaces?

-Am I immoral?

-Am I a paedophile?

-Am I tearing down western society in support of a deviant agenda?

-Am I selfish?

I eagerly await your responses;

Hazumu Osaragi

Robert said...

I am afraid the blogging robots has identified me as spam and halted Night Whispering publication. This happens occasionally but should resolve itself in the next 36 hours. That’s why your comments won’t be published. However, I will publish them I think they are excellent and I am so pleased to have gotten a response.
I certainly do not live in an ivory tower in these cases, but evangelistically and pastorally have to attend to and honestly and graciously with people who have gone through this.
The medical conditions you are affirm, I readily acknowledge. Though your I would disagree with your uses of Scripture to justify them. Frankly I think it’s unnecessary. These issues exist and need attending to. However, the comparatively small percentage of such cases measured against the much higher percentage of transsexual issues and rising cases of the same which we shall no doubt continue to see in our world, definitely indicate a much larger problem than a known medical condition. I is this larger problem I was, very poorly, trying to address in a short amount f space.
Also, I don’t agree with the acrogenous view of Adam that a number of people espouse to. Not in the physical sense anyways. Though of course woman was genetically tied up in Adam.
In the context of separate male and female genders, I think there is a definite male/female gender continuum present in both. In others words you can be a man and whilst remaining a man, be quite feminine in your characteristics, expressions and tendencies. Consequently you can be a woman, and whilst remaining a woman be quite manly in your characteristics, expressions and tendencies.
I do believe that technology, demonic agendas and cultural manipulation are destroying gender and subsequently god’s Kingdom. MALE AND FEMALE HE CREATED THEM.
Anyhow Zoe, the day calls,
I wanted to thank you for your thoughtful response which will be published.
May God richly bless you today on your journey in having Christ formed in you.
Peace
> I am afraid the blogging robots has identified me as spam and halted
> Night Whispering publication.
>
The same with my blog...
>
> This happens occasionally but should resolve itself in the next 36
> hours. That’s why your comments won’t be published. However, I will
> publish them I think they are excellent and I am so pleased to have
> gotten a response.
>
Glad to be of service.


Hi Reverend,

Thanks so much for your reply.


> I certainly do not live in an ivory tower in these cases, but
> evangelistically and pastorally have to attend to and honestly and
> graciously with people who have gone through this.
>
Just from the tone of your post, they're in good hands. Some entrusted with the spiritual care of others tend to be long on theology, but sometimes lacking in humanity. While I can't speak to your theological qualifications, 1 Corinthians 13 applies. You show Charity.
>
> The medical conditions you are affirm, I readily acknowledge. Though
> your I would disagree with your uses of Scripture to justify them.
> Frankly I think it’s unnecessary. These issues exist and need
> attending to. However, the comparatively small percentage of such
> cases measured against the much higher percentage of transsexual
> issues and rising cases of the same which we shall no doubt continue
> to see in our world, definitely indicate a much larger problem than a
> known medical condition. I is this larger problem I was, very poorly,
> trying to address in a short amount f space.
>
I thought you did rather well... As regards numbers, about 1.7 people per 100 are technically intersexed, but most don't have significant symptoms. About 1 in 1000 have a problem that's obvious. About 1 in 50,000 have a natural sex change, all but a handful from Female to Male.
That's compared to about 1 in 3000 have transsexuality, though rather more have some degree of gender dysphoria. That estimate is from Prof Lynn Conway, by the way, I'll include links if you'd like. Most textbooks give numbers of 1 in 30,000 for women , and 1 in 100,000 for men.


> Also, I don’t agree with the adrogenous view of Adam that a number of
> people espouse to. Not in the physical sense anyways. Though of course
> woman was genetically tied up in Adam.
>
I take a somewhat less literal view of the scriptures. I particularly have problems with a literal interpretation of the cosmology.
>
> In the context of separate male and female genders, I think there is a
> definite male/female gender continuum present in both. In others words
> you can be a man and whilst remaining a man, be quite feminine in your
> characteristics, expressions and tendencies. Consequently you can be a
> woman, and whilst remaining a woman be quite manly in your
> characteristics, expressions and tendencies.
>
Very true, you have an excellent understanding of the situation. I suppose observations of human nature are part and parcel of your job.
>
> I do believe that technology, demonic agendas and cultural
> manipulation are destroying gender and subsequently god’s Kingdom.
> MALE AND FEMALE HE CREATED THEM.
>
Technology in one respect - the drug DiEthylStilbestrol deserves to be up there with Thalidomide in notoriety. It was administered in the 50s-70s as an anti-miscarriage drug. While 1 in 10 children whose mothers took thalidomide had terrible deformities, those with a genetic vulnerability, fully 1 in 5 genetic males whose mothers took DES have transsexuality, and often other Intersex conditions too. The doctors meant well, but it should have been obvious after 1960 that something was very wrong.

This does mean that there is a peak of transsexual women at age 35-55 that will subside, DES victims account for perhaps 1 in 5-10 of all TS women.

My own situation is unusual. I'll take the liberty of telling you the short version, since it might aid understanding.


In 1968, I picked the name "Zoe", at age 10. I thought I'd have a normal
puberty like other girls, that I'd been classified as a boy by some mistake.

I was vaguely worried that I wasn't attracted to boys, so was a
"defective model" so to speak. I was rather innocent, naive, and they
weren't big on SexEd in England in 1968.

5 years later, I had learnt things in biology class. The monthly
bleeding I had at age 12 was put down to an episodic infection. My body
looked almost normally male. So I decided that my internal feelings must
be wrong, and I had to be a boy after all. I tried to be the best Man I
could be, trying to embody all the masculine virtues I would have sought
in the father of my children. Think "Sir Galahad".

When I was 20, I had a severe illness, one incredibly rare in males,
almost unknown. My abdomen was slit open from below the bikini line to
my breastbone, and various "anomalous tissue" removed, as well as the
diseased organ.

When I was 23, I met and fell in love with another girl. But that was
OK, my birth certificate said "boy", and I still looked like a rugby player.

At 27, I went to a fertility clinic, as we'd been unable to conceive.
Now there was some technical difficulty there, I didn't have normal male
organs. To me, intercourse was always only for procreation, it felt
un-natural, I didn't have the instincts or reflexes men have.

The diagnosis on the basis of blood tests and examination of my
genitalia was "undervirilised fertile male syndrome". "fertile" meaning
"not completely sterile". This was thought to be due to AIS - Androgen
Insensitivity Syndrome - which in its most severe form leads to a
sterile woman, not a man. The odds of me ever becoming a father were
about 100:1 against, and it would probably take medical assistance.

I tried to be a good husband. I was never much of a success as a man,
but I genuinely believe I was a success at being a decent human being.

In 1999, we tried a new medical technique (syringes etc to extract
gametes), and started having miscarriages. These were emotionally
devastating, but it was still the first glimpse of hope in nearly 20
years that we might become parents. In 2000 we hit the jackpot, and my
son was born in mid 2001.

I loved fatherhood. It was the one part of being male that seemed
natural to me, looking after my child. Others' children too, I did
volunteer work at a kindergarten, and was the "honourary mom" who had
the brute strength to dig holes and lift things.

In all that time, I felt no attraction to anyone other than my partner.
Neither men nor women interested me in the slightest, only her. My
monogamy was natural, not laudatory, as there was no temptation to
resist. I really didn't understand the concept of "sexual attraction"
that seemed to dominate so many people's lives.

In 2005, my metabolism went crazy. I lost a third of my body mass in 3
months, over a pound a day. Even my eyes changed colour, as they do in
some pubescent girls. I changed shape, skin and hair texture. There were
other changes of an indelicate nature.

As the result of many, many 21st century diagnostic techniques, MRIs,
ultrasounds, gene scans, blood tests, it was decided by my medical team
that I was more accurately classified as a "severely angrogenised
non-pregnant woman", and treatment started accordingly.

This required some intellectual flexibility on my part. Those silly
feelings that had never gone away that I was actually a woman in a
horribly masculinised body were accurate after all. And now my body was
no longer masculine, well, not more than a trace. About as much as it
had been feminine before, only detectable by medical exam.

I had some more surgery to normalise my body, and remove atrophied and
dysfunctional parts of my body that were a cancer risk. I had no other
surgery, nothing cosmetic, no implants, as that would be pure vanity. I
will never know what it is to look pretty. (Ok, so add vanity to the
list of sins... it would have been nice to look that way for some part
of my life, as other women do).

We remain married. Our vows were "in sickness and in health", forever,
and we have a boy who needs two parents. Our relationship is chaste of
course, but the love we've always felt for each other - Agape not Eros -
remains.

Please read the article on families
http://www.gendercentre.org.au/75article2.htm in Polare, the magazine
of the Gender Centre in Sydney, Australia. There you'll see a picture of
my very happy if unusual family.

Something to think about.

If I can help in any way with advice on such issues - which you would be
free to take or discard, according to your good judgement - \please just
ask. We may end up disagreeing on means, but we both want to help people
in a most distressing situation.

Go with God - though I'm sure you will -


Zoe E Brain
Thank you so much for your grace toward me, your sharing of your story, (I feel a little guilty about laughing during the reading of it, - 'honorary mom with brute strength to dig holes and lift heavy things'..hilarious!) and your kind offer of being a resource for advice. Which I may well take you up on !

I wonder if, when the blogging robots allow Zoe, you might allow me to publish our discourse in full on the Night Whisper blog , especially with your story. Thanks.

Finally, I enjoyed perusing your amazing blog. Using the BSS to rate articles verges on the miraculously stunning! I tell you now, I intend to steal your use of that rating...oooh don't get me talking about me bowels!

Absolutely finally, I am COMPLETELY ignorant of this drug- DiEthylStilbestrol - could you please advise me further.....also, If it rates in devastation as high Thalidomide, then WHY am I / others so very ignorant of this?

And may I say, that before your body flipped itself, well done for being the 'best man a gal could be...' (I'm still smiling at that one)

OK got go , Meanwhile, God bless you Zoe

TTFN

My Kind Regards

Robert

Rev. Victor Robert Farrell


Hey Tina

Rev. Victor Robert Farrell wrote:
>
> Hey Tina
>
>
>
> I will publish your comments as soon as the dreaded spam Robots allow
> my site to get up and running again.
>
> Meanwhile, thanks for your comments - it looks to me like I am about
> to get a lot of comment regarding the last blog.
>
>
>
> I have cc’d Zoe Brain in on this email, as she has been very helpful
> thus far. Maybe I can hook you both up?
>
Hi Rev!

Unfortunately Tina did not make her e-mail addy public - if you look at your "sent" box, it went to Tina mailto:noreply-comment@blogger.com ie the bit bucket.

If you do find her e-mail addy, please re-send.

By all means publish the correspondence! I know it's only common politeness to ask, but common politeness is not that common. Thanks.

I think it behooves me to emphasise that my unusual transition was just that - unusual. I have some interesting medical issues as the result, and most TS women have quite a different - and more difficult - experience compared to mine. On the other hand, psychologically speaking, I'm so standard my case is almost a cliche. Diagnosis in some cases is difficult, but in a surprisingly large number there's a pattern so standardised it's open-and-shut, with a 100% confidence diagnosis that takes an hour or two at most. The rest is conservative formal "are we really sure" cross-checking, as the consequences of misdiagnosis are so grave.

Ok, the fact that my body changed without hormonal therapy, at a rate far too fast to have been caused by hormonal therapy (by a factor of
10...) added an "air of verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative".

I had a traipse through your other blogs. Your children are wonderful!
I'm of the same vintage as yourself, and I find coping with a rambuctious 7 year old a little exhausting at times.

I had to laugh. You see, my mother was born in Clowne, and my father at Whitwall, not a million miles from Chesterfield. :) It's been 15 years since I saw the twisted spire, while visiting relatives. We came out to Australia in October 1968, but my work took me to Europe in 1986, and again in 1989-1995. That part of Derbyshire is one of the 4 places in Earth not on mountain tops where there is no free Iodine in the environment. Goiter - "Derbyshire neck" is endemic, or was until the advent of iodised salt. Evolutionary pressures produced some interesting, and sometimes unfortunate, mutations in families that have lived in that part of the world for many centuries. There's all sorts of genetic conditions that affect the Thyroid and other glands in the local gene pool. People with them don't require the iodine most other humans do, but there's prices to be paid. That's why Chesterfield has one of the few specialised Genetic Councelling centres in the UK.

I had thought I'd been in remission from my addiction to Black Pud. But after seeing that photo of a full English Breakfast, it seems not.

I was born in Earley, now a suburb of Reading in Berkshire. We used to drive to Bognor Regis for holidays. The Butlin's Holliday Camp... the Horror... the Horror...

If you wish to traipse around my blog, feel free. A good first start would be http://aebrain.blogspot.com/2008/05/year-three.html, which has links to summaries of years one and two of my peculiar experience. Yes, I've been blogging for years, so blogged it all as it happened.

I've been blessed with some excellent commenters - see http://aebrain.blogspot.com/2008/01/he-said-she-said.html for example.

I'm about as different from the usual Kumbayah-singing Left-wing Professional Activist as you can imagine. And yet... well, just read http://aebrain.blogspot.com/2008/03/why-we-fight.html It's because I'm Right-Wing, a believer in personal responsibility, that I can't pass by like the priest and the scribe.

It's 1am on a Saturday morning here, so i better wrap up quickly.

DES - full paper at
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/men-s-health-forum/prenatal-exposure-diethylstilbestrol-des-134253671.html
Initial paper at http://www.antijen.org/transadvocate/id33.html

As to why the... i am tempted to say 'cover up' by various drug companies... I'd be speculating. Certainly it would expose them to huge liabilities for a mistake no-one could reasonably have predicted, one which no longer continues, one which would take decades to prove in court, and one which would take money from drug research that would have saved lives, and give it to lawyers. I just wish there was a way they could come clean and fund some research on it without falling prey to ambulance-chasers. Perhaps when all those affected have died and there's no longer any financial risk, they may do. They've done all they can to ameliorate the situation without people dying, so let somnolent canines remain recumbent.

Finally...
The picture at http://aebrain.blogspot.com/2006/05/annus-mirabilis.html
explains what happened,though we're still not certain how. And Why is more in your bailiwick than mine!

All the best, to you and your wonderful family Zoe


Can't believe you are from my part of the world! We are both from Staveley..(The land that time forgot - especially after Mrs. Thatcher got her hands on the Mines) God help us!

Sleep well

By the way, how did you find my blog? :-)

My Kind Regards

Robert

Rev. Victor Robert Farrell

Robert said...

ROBERTS REPLY TO TINA

Hey Tina

I will publish your comments as soon as the dreaded spam Robots allow my site to get up and running again.
Meanwhile, thanks for your comments - it looks to me like I am about to get a lot of comment regarding the last blog.

I have cc’d Zoe Brain in on this email, as she has been very helpful thus far. Maybe I can hook you both up?

We’ll have to disagree with your use of Scripture, but that’s OK, we can beg to differ on that one. I acknowledged the medical condition (did I? Maybe not enough – let me revisit that later today maybe and make appropriate changes once the robots allow) but that was not my focus. I have a lot to learn on the issue but I am more confident (whilst not denying nor diminishing the very real medical issues) that there is a VAST moral issue and more importantly a dark and destructive malevolent force behind it.

Anyways, I am sure Zoe (hope not anyways) will not mind be cut and pasting our discourse in this email as it will stop me repeating myself.

I do think, that the need for prayer, truth, wisdom, grace, clarity, and judgment Tina, is paramount in this area.

Meanwhile Tina, may God richly bless you.


My Kind Regards

Robert

Rev. Victor Robert Farrell

Robert said...

REV ROBERTS RESPONSE TO HAZUMU
Hi;

May I interject a real life situation. I’d like to hear your guidance on this.

My mother was given a drug to take to lessen the chance of miscarriage and promote healthy babies — that’s what the doctor told her. The drug is Diethylstilbestrol, or DES. In male fetuses, it feminizes the brains of one in five of us ‘DES sons’.

I finally came to terms with this, and realized my choice was transition or die.
REV. ROBERT SAYS:- That must have been a most terrible situation to have been in. To have only those seemingly very stark decisions to make.
So, I’m now a male-to-female transsexual who’s had ‘the operation.’ I’ve changed all my legal paperwork and although I still have a male body with XY chromosomes, it has been retrofitted to approximate female anatomy, which is good because if I ever end up in an accident, there will be no ’surprise’ for the first responders.

I ‘pass’ very well, thank you.
REV. ROBERT SAYS:- Yes I am sure you do! I hope no one get’s offended by this, but simply as an observation, most good looking men would make good looking women. Most women especially after they had a few kids, would be delighted to look like most people who have gone through transsexual surgery. This female ‘envy ‘ issue towards transsexuals has yet to be addressed.
Only rarely do strangers figure out I was not born this way. Most people have to be told, by me, or, more often, by someone else who just has to ‘drop the bomb.’
REV. ROBERT SAYS:- Again, I can believe it!
So my question to you is — knowing what you know now about me, and assuming for the moment you get absolute power to label me and make determinations on where I can and can't go —
REV. ROBERT SAYS:- Me with Absolute power.....no the real problems begin!
-Which restroom and changing facility do you feel I, a male-to-female transsexual, should use when in public spaces?
REV. ROBERT SAYS:- May I suggest there are 5 scenarios here? And please, allow me some levity will you? Light touch and all that....:-
1) If you look THAT good, then simply, DONT ASK DONT TELL!
2) If however, you looked like ‘Alf Garnet with lipstick,’ then in some parts of the world you will be abused and arrested! Wisdom is needed here on YOUR part.
3) If, you intentionally press the envelope, that is, make a public point of pressing political and legal buttons whilst going for a pee, then frankly, your going to be rejected and ejected.
4) If you are peeing with the purpose of suing after you ahve caused a commotion, then your a money grabber. It’s got nothing to do with transsexual/transgender issues. You’re just a greedy old manipulative gold diggin’ tike!
By the way the incidences of 4 and 5 are growing in the Christian world especially)



-Am I immoral?
REV. ROBERT SAYS:- If you are anything like me, then yes, at times you will be .

-Am I a paedophile?
REV. ROBERT SAYS:- I certainly hope not! And in most cases this is not the case. Not unless you ahve the yet to bediscovered paedophile gene.

-Am I tearing down western society in support of a deviant agenda?
REV. ROBERT SAYS:- You don’t need to tear down ester Society, its crumbling before our very feet. We are reaping the whirlwind of all kinds of rubbish after sowing all kind of sinful seeds to the four winds. In addition to this, in my opinion, we are under the indirect judgement of God. In other words, on the whole, He is ignoring our prayers and allowing us the full repercussions of our sins.

-Am I selfish?
REV. ROBERT SAYS:- I can only speak for myself, and I am. Thoroughly. I suspect, no, I am reasonably sure that you are like me, a selfish sinner.

I eagerly await your responses;

Hazumu Osaragi

REV. ROBERT SAYS:- Hazumu thank you for writing. These are real, painful, and difficult decisions for you. Life is a mess. I pray that the grace of God, through the Lord Jesus Christ would be evident and practically worked out in both our lives. I pray that along with me, you would increasingly know Jesus and His love. I am speaking above and beyond your very real and painful transsexual issues now in saying that like me, your are a lost sinner in need of salvation. I do honestly desire, that like me, you will find forgiveness for all your sins. Blessings upon you now.

Robert said...

Once again, an apocryphal passage from the old Jewish Testament is being given the authority to tell us what do.
REV ROBERT SAYS:- These passages are not from the apocrypha. They are accepted by all orthodox to be the very word of God and yes, THEY DO TELL US WHAT TO DO.
The "Laws" in Deut. and Levit. are an embarrassment to modern Jews. They allow stoning your neighbors for blaspheming or planting two crops in a field. One passage allows selling your daughter into slavery. They are a joke!
REV ROBERT SAYS:- They are no joke, but they are disturbing, for sure.
Buried deeply in this morass of "Law", we find the "laws" against homosexuality and crossdressing.
REV ROBERT SAYS:- It’s not so deep. It’s surface, it’s blatant, and it’s obvious. The whole theme of light/dark separation in physical, moral and gender issues is very clear from Genesis onwards
But consider the laws against people with crooked backs and other deformities.
REV ROBERT SAYS:- and leprosy and lisps and one legged, bisexual, left wing dwarfs etc etc.......
No, your right though, there are specific instruction about just who could serve in the temple and those with certain physical deformities were barred from this.

Why aren't prohibitions enforced with the law against sodomy?
REV ROBERT SAYS:- But they were!
I know the reason, do you? Have you ever wondered why they're not included in the ten commandments if it's that important?
REV ROBERT SAYS:- Well, then there ould have been 11  No really, there is a TON of stuff not written on those table of stone.
Religious"Leaders" get by with this stuff only because people never read their bibles.
REV ROBERT SAYS:- Never a truer word spoken! Your dead right, Christians do not read theirBibles. I do, and frankly it is one of the most wonderful, disturbing, revealing, confusing, life giving, sin destroying books, I have ever come across.
BTW Jesus never said a word against homosexuality.
REV ROBERT SAYS:- Neither did he mention much about animal cruelty, over fishing, Neighbours being the worst sitcom in the world! Never the less, all three are serious issues which need to be addressed. Anyway, the Bible as the Word of God, in it’s wholeness, DOES clearly speak out against homosexuality. ARE TRANSGENDER ISSUES mainly about homosexuality?

I'm not homosexual, I'm Transgender so it doesn't mean anything to me.
REV ROBERT SAYS:- So, the abomination (NOT my word) of homosexuality is not your bag then

Contrast the "laws" of Deut. and Levit. with what Jesus said in Matt. 19:12. I'll trust you to know it.
REV ROBERT SAYS:- I must admit, I had to look it up!
Matthew 19:11-12
11 But He said to them, "All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given: 12 For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it." NKJV - Ahhh this is obviously becoming the transsexual verse of choice…..Let me study and think about this a little more and I shall try and get back to you. Thanks.


Wouldn't you agree that the third type of eunuch was the Transgendered? The sane, rational man can see no other application
REV ROBERT SAYS:- I amke no claim whatsoever to either being completely sane or consistently rationale!

for this. Especially when self made eunuchs were probably common then.
REV ROBERT SAYS:- Not only then, but early church history has examples of very well known people, even Theologians, ‘chopping their bits off ,‘ for the sake of not being tempted to sin. BIZARRE!

They existed in India for 4000 years. India provides us with a historical snapshot of the "Third sex" (Google Hijra) till the present. I can't believe things were radically different in the Holy Land. Other suggested reading, Mark 9:47 and Isaiah 56.
REV ROBERT SAYS:- Biblically speaking there IS NO THIRD SEX. Though i this fallen world, there is a massive gender/sexual mess.

I am a 60+ y.o. Transexual whose battled these feelings all my life.
REV ROBERT SAYS:- No patronizing intended here, but I am genially sorry about your life long pain and struggle
I was told to get married and raise a family to cope with them. I did that and it didn't work! So now I'm transitioning which is what I should have done forty years ago.
Regards, Terry
REV ROBERT SAYS:- Again Terry, thank you so much for your correspondence. You raise some very relevant points that need more time and attention than I can presently give them. I will finish by saying what I say to all sinners like myself. I pray you will find Jesus, and all the forgiveness that is ion him for you. Less you mis-hear me Terry, I am not speaking about transsexual issues per se, or homosexual ones in particular, but the fact that you, like me, are a fallen human being, separated from God by your sin. I pray His forgiving peace will be both yours and mine in abundance.
Finally, as for me, my sins go far deeper than any surgical knife could ever correct.
Be blessed.
Robert

terry said...

Dear Rev Robert,
Apocryphal- Writings of unknown or dubious authorship. I meant that the Old Test. was Jewish, about 4000 Y.O., and of unknown or dubious authorship. In conversations with a modern day Jewish scholar. It was revealed to me that Abraham is no longer regarded as a real person. The father of the three great religions of the world, not real? Hmmmm What else have they discovered as being not real?
The laws of the Pentateuch date from the inception of Judaism and we know nothing of the writer or his state of mind. Bearing in mind that Abraham may have been history's first recorded case of Schizophrenia/psychosis when god or a voice told him to burn his son.
The laws of the O.T. are by and largely ignored today, except for the laws that admonish homosexuality. Those we feel are relevant, up to date, and useful. But no one is selling their daughters into slavery today. Thank God!
I am doubly barred from the temple! Not only am I TS, but I have a crooked back, Scoliosis. My woman's disease! It's rare in males when the severity is such that it requires surgery, as mine did. I have only met two other males that had surgery and one was a TS, and the other could have been. Definitely a female thing! Am I mildly intersexed? I wonder!

I see you found Matt 19:12 to be interesting as I did. So it is with Mark 9:47, which tells us to remove offending body parts. Curiously Jesus made both comments,
but I feel that 9:47 was a parable and 19:12 was not a parable! Mark 9:47 is more general, while Matt 19:12 is very specific. Both were said by Jesus and seem to be in opposition to the "values" of the O.T. So what do you believe? The "laws" of the O.T. or Jesus?

Curiously, In Iran, Ayatollah
Khomeini issued a fatwa that approves of Transexuality and gives out free SRS (Sex Reassignment Surgery) to all who ask for it. All the while, homosexuality is a capital offense.
More than one Iranian gay has had his sex changed just to stay alive.
So if Iran can approve of it, why can't we? Islam uses the same Pentateuch as Judaism and us.

"Biblically speaking, There is no third sex!" Ahh but there is! you're forgetting the eunuchs. To me, it's clear. At the conference of Nicea and the writing of the King James Version, relevant parts were "De-emphasised" and only trace writings remain. And the British have always had a thing against any blurring of genders. Look at the supression of the Hijra in India and the north American Berdaches. Both were and are treated with disrespect and even violence.

Until recently, both castration
and SRS were illegal in India. Yet about a million Hijras (Eunuchs) exist there. They take women's names, They dress as women, and they live as women. They are Transgendered! In India, just as the first century Holy land, the effects of castration were well understood, you remove the source of maleness (hormones) and the body feminises itself. Yet, we're told that eunuchs of the bible were doing it so they wouldn't have to sin. Yet, it clearly was feminising them. So what was their real motive? A lack of sinning, or was it really the feminisation they were after? Conversely, St Paul seemed to hate sex in any form and would have been a good candidate for castration, but never had it. Why? Was it because St Paul was not transgendered and for all his celibate rhetoric, was more interested in not having the feminisation that went with it? I leave it to you to decide.
Regards, Terry

Robert said...

Dear Rev Robert,
Apocryphal- Writings of unknown or dubious authorship.
Rev Robert Replied:- Yeah I know! However the Old Testament id NOT apocryphal- Only the Roam Catholics would count the apocyrypha as part of their Bible and purely as it justifies on biblical teachings such as purgatory etc..
I meant that the Old Test. was Jewish, about 4000 Y.O., and of unknown or dubious authorship.
Rev Robert Replied:- No! It declares itself to be the very Word of God and beyond reasonable doubt I have found it to be so. I believe in the verbal and plenary inspiration of the Scriptures
In conversations with a modern day Jewish scholar. It was revealed to me that Abraham is no longer regarded as a real person. The father of the three great religions of the world, not real? Hmmmm What else have they discovered as being not real?
Rev Robert Replied:- Well that’s just a load of old liberal testicular birthed out of higher criticism and stupidity.

The laws of the Pentateuch date from the inception of Judaism and we know nothing of the writer or his state of mind. Bearing in mind that Abraham may have been history's first recorded case of Schizophrenia/psychosis when god or a voice told him to burn his son.
Rev Robert Replied:- Oh dear....This was a God test....I know...well hard....you’ll have to take that one up with him. Needless to say Abraham did not sacrifice his son Isaac and the whole Caananite tradition of the sacrifice fo male progeny became anathema to the Jewish nation under the command of God. Save of course, that sacrificed HIS ONE SON JESUS for your sins and for mine.

The laws of the O.T. are by and largely ignored today, except for the laws that admonish homosexuality. Those we feel are relevant, up to date, and useful. But no one is selling their daughters into slavery today. Thank God!
Rev Robert Replied:- as far as I am aware, the ETn comamndements are still in play, as is consciounce, creation and the Word of God. Though the Levitical law as it relates to temple sacrifice has been defunct for just a little bit!

I am doubly barred from the temple! Not only am I TS, but I have a crooked back, Scoliosis. My woman's disease! It's rare in males when the severity is such that it requires surgery, as mine did. I have only met two other males that had surgery and one was a TS, and the other could have been. Definitely a female thing! Am I mildly intersexed? I wonder!
Rev Robert Replied:- I couldn’t comment on that. Save to say that you would always be welcome at our church, though you would have to be robust enought to accept Biblical preaching. Don’t we all have to be that!


I see you found Matt 19:12 to be interesting as I did. So it is with Mark 9:47, which tells us to remove offending body parts. Curiously Jesus made both comments,
but I feel that 9:47 was a parable and 19:12 was not a parable! Mark 9:47 is more general, while Matt 19:12 is very specific. Both were said by Jesus and seem to be in opposition to the "values" of the O.T. So what do you believe? The "laws" of the O.T. or Jesus?
Rev Robert Replied:- Jesus is the fulfilment of the law and the prophets so I would believe both. Please see my blog for august 1st and 2nd


Curiously, In Iran, Ayatollah
Khomeini issued a fatwa that approves of Transexuality and gives out free SRS (Sex Reassignment Surgery) to all who ask for it. All the while, homosexuality is a capital offense.
More than one Iranian gay has had his sex changed just to stay alive.
So if Iran can approve of it, why can't we? Islam uses the same Pentateuch as Judaism and us.

"Biblically speaking, There is no third sex!" Ahh but there is! you're forgetting the eunuchs. To me, it's clear. At the conference of Nicea and the writing of the King James Version, relevant parts were "De-emphasised" and only trace writings remain. And the British have always had a thing against any blurring of genders. Look at the supression of the Hijra in India and the north American Berdaches. Both were and are treated with disrespect and even violence.

Rev Robert Replied:- Terry me old mucker..you’re just blatantly wrong! See my blogs for august 1st and 2nd

Until recently, both castration
and SRS were illegal in India. Yet about a million Hijras (Eunuchs) exist there. They take women's names, They dress as women, and they live as women. They are Transgendered! In India, just as the first century Holy land, the effects of castration were well understood, you remove the source of maleness (hormones) and the body feminises itself. Yet, we're told that eunuchs of the bible were doing it so they wouldn't have to sin. Yet, it clearly was feminising them. So what was their real motive? A lack of sinning, or was it really the feminisation they were after?

Rev Robert Replied:- THE FORMER pus Please see my blog for august 1st and 2nd
Conversely, St Paul seemed to hate sex in any form
Rev Robert Replied:- Don’t be silly!
and would have been a good candidate for castration, but never had it. Why? Was it because St Paul was not transgendered and for all his celibate rhetoric, was more interested in not having the feminisation that went with it? I leave it to you to decide.
Rev Robert Replied:- NONE OF THE ABOVE Please see my blog for august 1st and 2nd
Regards, Terry
Rev Robert Replied:- Blessings on you Terry..ttfn

sadd said...

The medical conditions you are affirm, I readily acknowledge. Though your I would disagree with your uses of Scripture to justify them. Frankly I think it’s unnecessary.
Personally, I think it's natural and indeed necessary to, when someone is quoting scripture to 'justify' a stance against something, to use the same tool in return (never bring a gun to a knife fight..?). If nothing else, it indicates that a stance (either for or against) that is based solely on scripture is fallible and doesn't contain sufficient evidence to be considered 'justified'. Essentially, it is an opinion, nothing more. Your use of scripture to suggest that Male and Female he created them and anyone disagreeing is supporting "unnatural tendencies" is equally unjustified.

Secondly, you have acknowledged the existence of intersexed people, cool. Now it's recently been discovered that certain genes are more likely in transsexual people (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14424-transsexuality-gene-boosts-male-hormones.html?DCMP=ILC-hmts&nsref=news1_head_dn14424). There is also evidence that MtF transsexuals often have extra copies of a gene governing estrogen metabolism. Note that the single gene highlighed in the study above is neither necessary (~50% FtM TS don't have this gene) or sufficient (30% of non-TS women have the gene) to cause transsexualism on it's own, but science is ever inching forward. Where therefore, is the line between those that are OK and those that are "down the toilet"? Does this line differ depending on the situation/judge?

Is it all these medical conditions and part-elucidated genetic links causing the sex/gender/orientation mess in society? Or merely peoples reaction to it?
If the former, can we seek guidance from our slightly less technologicaly inclined fellow inhabitants of the animal kingdom? - The fish that change sex throughout their life cycle, the female cattle born sterile and with male behaviour/instincts as a result of being in the womb with a bull foetus (freemartins), and the multitude of animals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior) that engage in homosexual behaviour...
How have these animals avoided the downfall of their communities that "should have" been caused by their behviour?


You acknowledge that people have male and female manners and characteristics and someone may be a feminine guy or vice-versa. Where is the line that says someone has so many (say) male characteristics, that their female body is misleading (and vice-versa)? How intersexed does someone have to be before they are no longer a transgender "train-wreck"? Does it count at the genetic level? The cellular level? The phenotype level? And if someone determines where that line is, and doctors agree, who is anyone else to argue? Moreover, as Hazumu alluded to, if someone has 'the op' and goes and lives in society with no-one knowing any different until someone 'helpfully' points things out, then how accurate is "train-wreck" as a description of transsexuality?

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Anonymous said...

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